I know what it is, too. And I believe that they had their reasons.
[ Still, Curufin finds it very frustrating, that assumption that there must of course be someone in the group who is stupid enough to run to the gods and blithely confide everything. Or that anybody in the group is already deliberately and knowingly spying for the gods, or will stupidly tell someone who is. He doesn't see anybody in the squad as a likely candidate for any of those roles. ]
In my world, I saw people abandoned, left to fend for themselves in a wartime situation, or pursued and killed by their own people, simply because they were suspected of being under the control of our great enemy, Morgoth, the god of destruction. My objection to that mode of thinking is not frivolous. I have seen communities ripped apart by it, needlessly.
[ But of course, he hears the softening in Nick's voice, the tiredness. Nick habitually carries more than his share of responsibility, and nobody who works with him can fail to be aware of this. Curufin's voice softens as well. ]
[Now that is simultaneously an easy and difficult question. Nick answers the easy part readily.]
I know I can trust you to do what you believe is right, Curufin, even if I don't agree with it. You put a lot of passion into whatever you do, and have tried to help others for as long as I've known you. You've got a good heart, and you put yourself out there for other people. I can't help but respect that.
[But -- and there always is one --]
But it's no secret I don't have the same respect for some of the folks you associate with. And while you trust them, I don't. I don't trust them with what information they might get from you, either. And I don't believe you'd give them anything willingly, but with the way things work around here, with how the gods can turn us against each other, send us into people's dreams, make us divulge our deepest secrets...
[He trails off, but he's sure Curufin gets the picture.]
[ And now there is a softness in Curufin's dark gray eyes that was not there before. It is positively startling to be acknowledged for the good he tries to do, almost disarming. ]
Thank you, Nick.
[ Yes, but here comes the but. ]
In my world, we don't speak much of trust. Love we believe in, and fealty, but trust assumes too much. We put our faith in promises, rather. That way, everything is laid out on the table and all expectations are clearly understood.
I forgave Yukari with conditions. The conditions are that he never again harm the innocent, nor support any cause that would threaten my family, my friends, or this community. That obviously includes supporting the Null. He won't break that promise. If he did, he would lose me for good, and he could not stand that.
He himself is unhappy with the way things have been with him, and he is seeking a change, as I told you when we spoke in March. He is currently going to the Colosseum to protect newcomers, and he has taken a couple of orphans under his wing, and some of my family members have been counseling him. [ Combination of counseling him with great kindness and threatening him with mayhem if he ever again does anything to make Curufin unhappy. ]
I don't expect you to trust him, nor even to believe that he is sincere in his efforts. I tell you this simply because I want you to know my reasoning. And my heart.
And no, I wouldn't tell him about the Save Name Squad. But even if he found out by some other means, he wouldn't run to the gods with this information. That would endanger me and a number of people I care about, and that would count as a broken promise.
[ Yes, he does get the picture, but. . . ]
Besides, the gods won't get this information from me, not directly and not by way of a dream. I'm what our people would call a sorcerer; I can make and project a vision of my own, and I have considerable control over what happens even in a natural dream or a dream sent by another mind. I am on my guard, and I will conceal my secret even if another mind comes prowling around trying to detect it.
Nor would the gods be able to turn Yukari against me. That would be a case of immovable force meets immovable object. As it would be if they tried to turn me against another. The Flu virus was an immunizing experience for me, and that's to the extent that it affected me at all. I wasn't very susceptible in the first place.
[Though Nick meant more than just Yukari, he lets Curufin talk for now. He looks, unfortunately, unmoved by the elf's reassurances.
There's no guarantee the gods won't be able to turn even the closest of individuals against one another; they have plenty of times in the past, particularly when Rage is active. There's no guarantee they won't get information out of Curufin either, no matter what supernatural abilities he may have; they've managed to access the memories of machines, aliens, and those who clearly aren't human before, altering their perception, changing how they see the world and the people around them. There's no guarantee Yukari is wholly changed, that Curufin isn't being idealistic, that any of what they're doing is truly behind closed doors.
All in all, there are a lot of variables that could come into play, and it's just best to keep them all in mind going forward. Nick's reply, though brief, encompasses much:]
Don't make promises you can't keep, Curufin.
[And with that, he gives a nod in farewell and steps into the headquarters. The rest of his patrol can wait -- since he's here, he'll get some work done.]
[ Nick no doubt has his own perspective on these matters -- he always has had his own perspective, born of his experiences in his own world and this one. Curufin respects that.
Nevertheless, if what Nick fears is absolutely true, then the gods could wrest the information from anyone in the Save Name Squad, not just from Curufin. Every single person on the squad would therefore be an unacceptable security risk. And so would Henry, and so would every trusted friend or family member of every squad member.
But Curufin doesn't believe the gods' powers are absolute. They have certain abilities, but they wield them rather bluntly, going for mass effects and not individual ones. They know little of their hosts in terms of psychology, and they have not even begun to explore that aspect of the hearts and minds that feed them. They wouldn't know how to plumb the depths of a mind or heart that truly resisted. And experience counts, here. ]
I never make promises I can't keep, Nick. [ He returns this quiet reply just before Nick turns away. ]
I hope that all will be well. But if it is not, then we will have the greatest need to stand firm as a unit. I came here to say that and to offer whatever I have to give.
[ He returns Nick's nod and turns away as well, heading out to finish his own patrol. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2018-05-12 08:48 pm (UTC)[ Still, Curufin finds it very frustrating, that assumption that there must of course be someone in the group who is stupid enough to run to the gods and blithely confide everything. Or that anybody in the group is already deliberately and knowingly spying for the gods, or will stupidly tell someone who is. He doesn't see anybody in the squad as a likely candidate for any of those roles. ]
In my world, I saw people abandoned, left to fend for themselves in a wartime situation, or pursued and killed by their own people, simply because they were suspected of being under the control of our great enemy, Morgoth, the god of destruction. My objection to that mode of thinking is not frivolous. I have seen communities ripped apart by it, needlessly.
[ But of course, he hears the softening in Nick's voice, the tiredness. Nick habitually carries more than his share of responsibility, and nobody who works with him can fail to be aware of this. Curufin's voice softens as well. ]
Just one more thing. Do you trust me, Nick?
no subject
Date: 2018-05-12 09:03 pm (UTC)I know I can trust you to do what you believe is right, Curufin, even if I don't agree with it. You put a lot of passion into whatever you do, and have tried to help others for as long as I've known you. You've got a good heart, and you put yourself out there for other people. I can't help but respect that.
[But -- and there always is one --]
But it's no secret I don't have the same respect for some of the folks you associate with. And while you trust them, I don't. I don't trust them with what information they might get from you, either. And I don't believe you'd give them anything willingly, but with the way things work around here, with how the gods can turn us against each other, send us into people's dreams, make us divulge our deepest secrets...
[He trails off, but he's sure Curufin gets the picture.]
no subject
Date: 2018-05-15 12:42 am (UTC)Thank you, Nick.
[ Yes, but here comes the but. ]
In my world, we don't speak much of trust. Love we believe in, and fealty, but trust assumes too much. We put our faith in promises, rather. That way, everything is laid out on the table and all expectations are clearly understood.
I forgave Yukari with conditions. The conditions are that he never again harm the innocent, nor support any cause that would threaten my family, my friends, or this community. That obviously includes supporting the Null. He won't break that promise. If he did, he would lose me for good, and he could not stand that.
He himself is unhappy with the way things have been with him, and he is seeking a change, as I told you when we spoke in March. He is currently going to the Colosseum to protect newcomers, and he has taken a couple of orphans under his wing, and some of my family members have been counseling him. [ Combination of counseling him with great kindness and threatening him with mayhem if he ever again does anything to make Curufin unhappy. ]
I don't expect you to trust him, nor even to believe that he is sincere in his efforts. I tell you this simply because I want you to know my reasoning. And my heart.
And no, I wouldn't tell him about the Save Name Squad. But even if he found out by some other means, he wouldn't run to the gods with this information. That would endanger me and a number of people I care about, and that would count as a broken promise.
[ Yes, he does get the picture, but. . . ]
Besides, the gods won't get this information from me, not directly and not by way of a dream. I'm what our people would call a sorcerer; I can make and project a vision of my own, and I have considerable control over what happens even in a natural dream or a dream sent by another mind. I am on my guard, and I will conceal my secret even if another mind comes prowling around trying to detect it.
Nor would the gods be able to turn Yukari against me. That would be a case of immovable force meets immovable object. As it would be if they tried to turn me against another. The Flu virus was an immunizing experience for me, and that's to the extent that it affected me at all. I wasn't very susceptible in the first place.
no subject
Date: 2018-05-20 06:06 am (UTC)There's no guarantee the gods won't be able to turn even the closest of individuals against one another; they have plenty of times in the past, particularly when Rage is active. There's no guarantee they won't get information out of Curufin either, no matter what supernatural abilities he may have; they've managed to access the memories of machines, aliens, and those who clearly aren't human before, altering their perception, changing how they see the world and the people around them. There's no guarantee Yukari is wholly changed, that Curufin isn't being idealistic, that any of what they're doing is truly behind closed doors.
All in all, there are a lot of variables that could come into play, and it's just best to keep them all in mind going forward. Nick's reply, though brief, encompasses much:]
Don't make promises you can't keep, Curufin.
[And with that, he gives a nod in farewell and steps into the headquarters. The rest of his patrol can wait -- since he's here, he'll get some work done.]
no subject
Date: 2018-05-21 01:45 am (UTC)Nevertheless, if what Nick fears is absolutely true, then the gods could wrest the information from anyone in the Save Name Squad, not just from Curufin. Every single person on the squad would therefore be an unacceptable security risk. And so would Henry, and so would every trusted friend or family member of every squad member.
But Curufin doesn't believe the gods' powers are absolute. They have certain abilities, but they wield them rather bluntly, going for mass effects and not individual ones. They know little of their hosts in terms of psychology, and they have not even begun to explore that aspect of the hearts and minds that feed them. They wouldn't know how to plumb the depths of a mind or heart that truly resisted. And experience counts, here. ]
I never make promises I can't keep, Nick. [ He returns this quiet reply just before Nick turns away. ]
I hope that all will be well. But if it is not, then we will have the greatest need to stand firm as a unit. I came here to say that and to offer whatever I have to give.
[ He returns Nick's nod and turns away as well, heading out to finish his own patrol. ]